Le système "Chord Scale"

(...)The chord-scale system provides familiarity with typical chord progressions, technical facility from practicing scales and chord arpeggios, and generally succeeds in reducing "'clams'", or notes heard as mistakes (through providing note-choice possibilities for the chords of progressions), and building "'chops'", or virtuosity. However, disadvantages include the exclusion of non-chord tones characteristic of bop and free styles, the 'in between' sounds featured in the blues, and consideration of directionality created between the interaction of a solo and a chord progression: "The disadvantages of this system may become clear when students begin to question why their own playing does not sound like such outstanding linear-oriented players as Charlie Parker, Sonny Stitt or Johnny Griffin (or, for that matter, the freer jazz stylists) (...)

Le système "Chord Scale" peut faciliter l'approche de certaines progressions d'accords, et amener une plus grande facilité dans la pratique des gammes et des arpèges, et généralement amène une réduction des "erreurs", et aide à construire une certaine virtuosité. (...)

"Les désavantage de ce système peuvent apparaître d'eux-même lorsque l'étudiant se pose la question pourquoi son jeu ne sonne pas comme Charlie Parker, Sonny Stit ou Johnny Griffin...

(...) the chord-scale system is now the, "most widely used method for teaching jazz improvisation in college".

(...) the chord-scale system is now the, "most widely used method for teaching jazz improvisation in college".

However, disadvantages include the exclusion of non-chord tones characteristic of bop and free styles, the 'in between' sounds featured in the blues, and consideration of directionality created between the interaction of a solo and a chord progression: "The disadvantages of this system may become clear when students begin to question why their own playing does not sound like such outstanding linear-oriented players as Charlie Parker, Sonny Stitt or Johnny Griffin (or, for that matter, the freer jazz stylists) (...)

c'est une methode d'analyse qui s'applique rapidement et intuitivement

L'analyse musicale est une discipline consistant en l'étude d'une œuvre musicale de façon à en comprendre la genèse, l'architecture et les desseins.

Après avoir déterminé le contexte historique, culturel et stylistique de la composition, s'être penché sur la biographie, les influences de l'auteur et les circonstances de la création, une analyse musicale examinera le genre, la forme, la structure, les indications de mouvement et de tempo (leurs agogiques éventuelles), les tonalités, les enchaînements harmoniques, les formules cadentielles et l'orchestration sans oublier l'observation minutieuse de la mélodie, des différentes voix polyphoniques, du rythme, des nuances, de la dynamique et autres ornementations.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/A(...)icale

j'ai fait recemment une analyse de la 1ere gymnopédie de Satie en comparaison avec celle faite par un copain agrégé; on est arrivé quasiment au meme resultat.

Personnellement, je ne crois pas qu'il s'agisse d'une "approche" de la musique, mais plutôt d'une "expérimentation" ( "truc" comme le souligne Zigmout ?)... Ça fonctionne bien, mais le résultat est très "typé" jazz...

Par contre, ça serait intéressant d'avoir des exemples en vidéo de morceaux qui utilisent cette "méthode", le texte du wiki ne fait mention que de professeurs, ou d'influences sans donner de titre précis (Miles Davis's Lydian Chromatic Concept-influenced first modal jazz album Kind of Blue, is often given as an example of chord-scale relationships in practice.)

le resultat est typé jazz, c'est vrai, encore que si tu appliques le principe sur une grille bien tonale tu retrouves l'analyse tonale.

des exemple video : il suffit de reprendre n'inporte quelle video de jazz fusion.

de toutes façons, ce n'est pas un "truc" qu'on applique pour jouer un morceau, c'est une methode d'analyse qui s'applique rapidement et intuitivement et qui permet de travailler un morceau et de developper son jeu en improvisation.

et encore une fois, ça n'est absolument pas contradictoire avec une analyse tonale classique.

par exemple si je reprend le topic de gmailex.

je dis qu'on peut jouer re mineur melo sur le Dm7 et la myxo b6 sur le A7.
break vient dire "c'est absurde, on est en en re mineur melo, et A7 est la dominante secondaire de Dm7."

il a parfaitement raison, mais on dit de façon differente exactement la meme chose; car jouer re mineur melo sur A7, c'est la meme chose que jouer la myxo b6.
il dit que c'est une complication inutile; mais c'est simplement une appellation differente due à une approche différente qui à mon sens est plus pratique qu'une analyse classique qui devient souvent tres complexe dans un contexte de modulations et substitutions tres frequentes, ce qui est de plus en plus systemetique dans l'evolution du jazz.

mais tu n'as tout simplement pas saisis ni n'entends ce qu'est l'analyse tonale, vu que tu fais systématiquement comme si la fonction n'existait pas

Tu peux donner cette analyse ? Du moins dans les grandes lignes... (Je ne vois pas du tout ce que tu peux sous-entendre par "même résultat"...) ...

tu penses vraiment qu'on peut faire plus de 50 ans de musique sans avoir compris ces notions.
autant dire tout de suite que j'ai le QI d'une moule ou alors interroge toi un peu plus sur le sens de ce que je dis.

Et donc tu n'as pas répondu à ma question... réponse qui pourrait pourtant amener de l'eau à ton moulin...

Firstly, this is non-fuctional harmony, so determining function is useless in a traditional sense.

(...) this is not tonal music, so talking about "G Major" and "modulating to X" may not be as informative as you'd like it to be.

It's not "in G Major" because it's not a tonal piece. It's post-tonal. It does have a key signature, but a key signature does not tell you the key, it tells you it might be one of two possible keys in tonal music, in this case Bm or DM (if it were tonal).

At best, given the final cadence, we could say it is D Dorian, and the key signature of two sharps (either by Satie or an Editor) was chosen to reflect a "key center" of D.

But obviously, the piece uses many chords throughout that shift through various modes.

This is a Modal, post-tonal piece.

Bars 1-16 are G Lydian.
Bar 17 begins a "ii-V-i" progression leading to E Dorian (the "parallel" to G Lydian).

Bar 21 begins a shift to D Dorian (F and C Naturals throughout).

So there are some "hints" at traditionalism here Nick ("parallel" treatment of modes, ii-V-i moves, the idea that if it began in D Ionian, it could move to the "relative" D Dorian which reflects the D Major to D minor mode change of many classical works, etc.)


>
> So for the blue circled bar, I thought it could be
> a Dmajor minor7th in G, a fifth of fourth, but
> then there's an E note there.

The chord is, from bottom to top:

D - D - G - B - E - B - C - D

It depends on how you want to approach this as to what it would be called.

It is a G6 chord (G-B-D-E) or Em7 (E-G-B-D) if you consider the C note in the melody to be a passing tone (which it often is in this position), over a D bass, so:

G6/D or Em7/D (or just Em/D for some)

If I were trying to point out a "more traditional" idea of a IV6/4 (D-G-B ) to I (D-F-A) idea to further liken these moves to tonal music, than I'd call it the G6/D. If I wanted my analysis to point out the "modal" nature, I'd pick the Em7/D as it sounds "more modal" as a ii-i type "cadence". Furthermore, if I were trying to point out the ambiguous nature this piece exudes, I'd offer both as possible interpretations.

If you are to consider the C a chord tone, then it could be CM7/D (or some would call CM9/D). I don't think it sounds very "C-ish" though, so this would be my least likely choice.

A secondary issue here is that Jazzers see m7 and M7 chords as implying a Dorian and Lydian source respectively, so using G6, Em7, or CM7 all imply some sort of F# and doesn't point out the D Dorian modality as well (so again, why G6 is the least offensive choice, and has a nice tie-in with traditionalism)

If I were looking at the entire structure, calling it "some type of D chord", it would be Dm13 - though again I don't know how informative that is because it's missing the F and A (and by the way, F natural is implied from measure 21, which you didn't include here).

The most informative analysis is what he's doing - using a drone D bass, with a D dorian melody above, and harmonies from D dorian. He's also using "triad forms" above that bass, such as Em, Am, and F to create Em7/D (Dm13), Am/D (Dm9) and F/D (Dm7).

One interesting thing to note is how the harmonies, taken from that D starting point, go from "more dense" to "less dense" - m13 to m9 to m7 - the "ebb and flow" or "shrink and grow" throughout the passage. However, if you consider the melody (depending on how you consider the melodic tones as chord tones or not) that can change the overall harmonic ideas.


>
> For the red circled section I'm just clueless how
> something in C major can be related to D Major,

That's because it's not in C major.

It contains the notes A B C D E F and G.

That *could be* C major, A minor, C Ionian, D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, G Mixolydian, A Aeolian or B Locrian.

It's D Dorian (at that point).


> unless he's doing a circle of fifth motion or
> something?

It's possible in modal music to have 5th related movement, but this is not one of those instances, and it's not tonal music, so talking about "circle of 5ths" is again not going to be very informative.


>
> Any help would be much appreciated, thanks.

Hope that helps,

Steve
https://www.guitare-live.com/f(...).html

Which chord do you hear as the "home" chord.

It sounds far more to me like the G chords are "I" and the D chords are "V".

When "G" sounds like "home", or the "tonic", or the "center", then the piece is "in G" - it's in G *something*.

Given a key signature of two sharps, and no chromatic alterations, that would make it G Lydian. The "G-ness" of the passage makes the G feel like "I" IMHO.

Sometimes, people just don't understand the difference between modes and keys, so if it's got 2 sharps, they refuse to recognize it as anything but D Major or B minor.

Best,
Steve

https://www.guitare-live.com/f(...).html